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July 23, 2011 at 12:00 am #62913
Hi and thanks for the interest this is a carry over from landbuddy
I thought it would be easier to chat on forum.
First just to answer a couple of questions posted on landbuddy
the properties are very remote about 45 mins drive from montello NV
1.5 hours from Wells NV or Wendover UT.This is beautifull country
clean air no noise or light pollution but the remoteness is to some people
the thing that rules this area out
I personally have 2 extra 10 acre blocks that i would be happy to make
available for a small cash deposit ($2000) and the remainder in barter script or iou,s 90 oz silver, 10 cords of firewood, 30 days labor something like that im realy not too worried im after good neighbors and friends not real estate profits. there is also much more available in the area from other sources if you were interested.
Employment is going to be a problem for many people either you have some
form of self employment or are retired or your work involves frequent travel anyway I dont think commuting daily out here is an option.
I have only been here a little while myself and have been concentrating on
the food production,energy production and water much more than the living
arangements but ultimatelly i want to have an earthship and all the properties
i have have suitable earthship locations.
The area around Montello seems very popular with off griders another
member of this forum is also in the area and perhaps he will chime in.
I have been thinking quite a bit about community building the last few days
and i think i have decided that its the personalities that will make it
I have many technical/building and agricultural skills but i think
what this village would need is a merchant,trader or as i said in another
post a human craigslist it would also need the socialite A friendly person
barkeep,preacher maybee just someone who is good with people.
Well some of this was just me thinking out loud what do you think?July 25, 2011 at 12:00 am #65387
How deep do you have to drill to get water? Looking around <google earth> the area I notice irrigation circles but not many. This suggest the aqquifier is either very deep or has a low flow rate that doesn’t allow lot of irrigation.
I too have been mulling over how to build a compatible community. The little hamlet I live in now is dying. The gas station general store burnt and will not be rebuilt because the insurance company suspects arson. The local school is being closed down and the post office only opens every other day.
I think it may be easier to convert an existing small community to being off grid than it is to start an off grid community from scratch. You are correct about the kinds of people needed but you also have to have some sort of social activity focus for recreation. Once you get past 10 people it becomes difficcult to host any sort of activity at a private home.July 25, 2011 at 12:00 am #65388
water is the key to this area from what i know aquifer water level is 200 to 300 feet which is totally doable there are a couple of wells in the area used by the ranchers.personally i am going catchment and storage rather than well.
rainfall in the area this year at least seemed plenty for all my needs and a small garden area I just wish i had my gutters and tank finished in time to catch this years precipitation.Also there is one small natural spring at about 10 miles on the way to town and i am pretty sure another at about 7 miles but i have not checked that one out yet.
If i can help it i dont want to have to go well because at 200 to 300 feet it puts a major burden on alternate energy sources for pumping it can sure be done
but if precipitation is enough id rather be using rainwater anyway.
Alright I admit it I would love to live in a village with a tavern,old english pub/inn or mead hall as the community center.you know the sort A fat jolly barkeep, cobb walls, candle or lamp light, fire in the corner,microbrew on site,thick wooden furniture,simple accomadations upstairs,cute barmaid,
good solid food even if it lacks variety.I knew of a place like that once
out in the middle of nowhere and very popular with the locals and tourists
but eventually the law of the land shut them down due to many different rules and regulations.It used to be that places like that were where we went to
network instead of on the computer pick up some work, sell something, meet friends, get a cheap but good meal,rent a simple bed if we were passing through.
last time i went out to a pub all i had was extreme amounts of noise to the point where i could not even think let alone talk,crappy food (pretzles and potato chips)and crappy beer brewed by some huge brewing company that wants
me to think because they have cute babes and fast nascars in their advertising
that their beer somehow tasts acceptable.
end of rant lolJuly 25, 2011 at 12:00 am #65389JayParticipant
Chowan I completely agree with you and as for the brewing you can look up the license fee it appears not to be too expensive per year and that way you could market the tavern to cover that cost. I am sure you could have plenty of people who would pass through over time.
I am extremely interested in your settlement and would love to discuss further about this idea. I am Irish so a bar and me as you know go hand in hand
JayJuly 25, 2011 at 12:00 am #65390
the sticky part of a tavern would not just be the brewing license
it would be everything if it was opened and marketed to the public.
as soon as you wanted to make it public everything would have to comply to some code electrical,plumbing,construction even though where i am is very remote and the local building inspector seemed very easy to get along with.
as soon as you started talking about a public tavern it would get a lot
of unwanted attention i think. I thought it would be better to skirt
that trouble by keeping it a semi private venue.I can do a lot of things
cob construction,concrete,woodworking i can even forge some fancy iron hinges
or cast brass candle holders but i cant handle paperwork and beuracracy.
I thought the tavern etc would be the abode or under the direction of the
type of person/s i described as the socialite i guess i have in the back of my mind possibly the husband and wife grandpa and grandmotherly type.
semiretired, old but hale,lots of stories even if you cant believe most of them,good cooks,maybee grandpa is a brewer or grandma is a herblady.
of course anybody could fill the role of socialite if they are friendly
and good with people that is just my idea and rarely do my ideas come out exactly as i thought lolJuly 25, 2011 at 12:00 am #65391
As far as what i can provide ill be running bees,rabbits,worms,chickens,fish and maybee some goats when i can get some decent fences built.im still young
enough to help out with straight physical work and have a good amount of building expierience I can also set up of grid power systems solar,wind,methane etc and i will be getting my forge running again
and hope to pick up some forge piece work or perhaps do a kind
of traveling tinker thing to earn some cash income.
I also have a small tractor and some other light farm equipment
which would come in handy im sure.
I also do a lot of traveling with work now and have trailers where i can pick
up and transport a lot of things if needed
My idea for the other person i thought of as key to a succesfull village
community would be the trader somebody who is a good networker good at finding
things maybee likes doing the craigslist thing or doing the farmers market/flea market on the weekends.July 25, 2011 at 12:00 am #65392
Chowan I suspect something else is also needed.
We have all those ingredients you mentioned already in place, including a legally licenced pub. We are only an hours drive from a local micro brewery that makes passably drinkable ale. And its not noisy. Food is edibble although my wife could do better.<smile> Unfortunately the pub owner likes to pinch and pat the bottoms of the hired help – something my wife will not countenance.
we do have a local community center but some people complained that the easter play and christmas play actually mention the reason for the seasonal holiday. Apparently it is politically incorrect to mention that Christmas and Easter are festivals involving the mention of Jesus christ.
I only handle the stage lighting so its no skin off my nose what the play subject is; I just follow the script as to which lights are on when.
When a dinner is put on in the Community Hall they can pack in 150 people and turn away some. Attendees range from Ranchers to yuppies working in town 60 miles away and some of them do not live here any more.
The annual Bluegrass festival brings a crowd of 200 from hundreds of miles away as does the hot rod show and shine. we have off grid residences even right here but it simply is not a focus. Nobody talks about it. Only gue who does; only gets into it after 3 beers at the pub.I am truly mystified as to what would make for a viable off-grid community.
I had really expected this place was perfectly suited. But it does not seem like it.July 26, 2011 at 12:00 am #65393
The other thing i think we would need is industry every succesfull
pioneer comunity was founded on some form of industry ie cattle ranching,
gold mining,sawmilling,transport or a combination of many things.
the successfull village that i said i loved living in had a pottery that attracted tourists before it was a pottery it was a pub and before that a whorehouse i am told it adapted to the changing times.it also has a general store and postoffice which was the railway siding before. it has a vw repair
shop several ranchers and smallcropers also bannana plantations and a beekeeper
and it used to have a electronics repair guy, a ham radio guy who was also a chiropractor, a acupunturist and a stationary printer also used to have some sawmilling.
at one time i was the electronics repair guy but before me there was another old guy who i purchased my first oscillascope from (still ran on valves lol)
and after me there was another guy who started doing the electronic repair
who i started to teach before i left but i dont think he listened very well lol
lol The point to all this reminising is that there has to be something
to bring IN the outside wealth because sure as anything there is going to
be wealth leaving the village I like my coffee and I know it will not grow in NE Nevada so its something that will have to be purchased (wealth leaving the village)
the trick is to have the wealth entering the village be more than whats leaving it this is where being mostly self sufficient will help.
there are many cottage crafts that would be suitable to bring in wealth
even in todays age of competing with China but it would
need both a Trader as i previously described and it would need self sufficiency
in most other aspects of our life.
right now oil and energy is still very cheap that is why we can afford to
ship raw materials to China and have them manufacture finished goods and
ship them back for less than we can make them here.
Its hard to compete with cheap energy whch allows the movement over such large
distances often i hear it blamed on cheap chinese labor but its not just that
in this day of robots and production lines. Personally i dont blame the chinese for selling us poorly produced crap its our fault for buying it and buying it and buying it again lol.
but ultimately cheap energy is what shut down the local general store or
gas station because its now cheaper to drive 20 or 50 miles to a wallmart or 76 gas station than buy locally.
This would have to change not just by wishfull thinking or good vibes it would take industrious people who just like what they do and feel a sense of community spirit and acomplishment when there products/wares are purchased and appreciated.
I believe in permaculture concepts of energy descent the communities
that start or adapt to energy descent will thrive others will continue
Elnav in a previous post you described your town as shutting down because the sawmill closed this is not uncommon sawmill,mining,agriculture,fishing,
etc etc it all changes and our comunities must adapt. On the upswing small industries shut down because they could not compete with the big guys and now the big guys are beginning to shut down or consolidate and soon it will be the little guy leading the way again if the little guy could be encouraged and supported
encouraged by purchasing his product and supported by say the trader selling his wares then the village/town with some good little guys would thrive.
got to log off but before i do it was cheap energy/shipping that shut down the little guys in favor of things like modern day wallmart if the cost of energy
was to increase or if through largely local trade we could negate the cost of shipping then the little guy,cottage craft and small communities would again
begin to thrive
I would love to show them how its done lolJuly 26, 2011 at 12:00 am #65394
People will only work together for a common goal when they believe in that goal.
Right now too many people still think the world will return to normal and things will return to what it was < comfortable> before.
They are all too willing to believe the false prophets < economists> who say things will get better if only .. . . . < fill in the blank of your choice>
As a consequence they are not willing to commit to a different future that seems uncertain and which is strange to them.July 26, 2011 at 12:00 am #65395
you are spoton Elnav that is possibly why your community is not
adapting well to the changes that has befell it even though it has
a lot of good things already going for it.
and that could be a good reason to form a new community of people who are already dedicated to a new type of lifestyle.
I think most people who visit this site share many common beliefs
even if they are based on enviromental or political or financial or spiritual
reasons I think it is fair to say most people here believe its a good idea
to NOT depend on other people or governments for their energy,water,food and shelter.and many here just feel a sense of acomplishment providing for
their own needs kind of like the stone age hunter returning with meat for the
tribe. not to mention the lack of stress not having to worry about affording
paying the electric bill this month lol.
so i think its reasonable if villagers lol could be found through this site
we would all share a common goal even if we are totally different peoplesJuly 26, 2011 at 12:00 am #65396
This forum reaches a global audience.In some ways this makes it very difficult for interested peeople to get together. There is a very real political barrier between you and I, not to mention a financial barrier that also prevents us from getting together. The same aapplies to a great many people.
Perhaps this forums greatest contribution is to at least spread the thoughts that will someday motivate more people to join us in sharing the ideals nd concepts. We can form a virtual community to share thoughts idea and sometimes even technical solutions to common problems.
It has been my observation tht the people who are initially attracted to the concepts of living off grid are not always the enginering types who are most likely to have the knowledge to solve the technical problem.July 26, 2011 at 12:00 am #65397
wow a political barrier? how do you even know my political beliefs?
i generally keep them to myself unless asked I know I am not the best
person for expressing things in writing and often this leads to
misconceptions about me.
but just so everyone knows im a libertarian, a constitutanalist GO RonPaul 2012 lol
would you not like to have me in your community simply because of a political belief? Im smart, hardworking, honest and a share your interest in living off grid would that not make me a good member of your comunity even if your a democrat and i think Al Gore is a crook and Nancy Pelosi makes my ears ring in pain whenever she speaks.
i dont think different politics,religon etc rules out a person as a valuable
member of a community (It takes all sorts)thats another saying i like.
finances are another matter of course ive spent all i could afford getting
gear here and getting set up I could not pull up stakes and move across the country again and im sure others have the same consideration.
this is a very inexpensive area to buy and own no doubt but it has limited
employment oportunites and that is going to be hard for many people
unless we make our own employment.July 26, 2011 at 12:00 am #65398
your observation about people initially interested in off grid
dont always have the technical skills to get them started and
set up is true and that is why a community is a good way to start
an learn.July 27, 2011 at 12:00 am #65399
Chowan you completely misunderstood my refereence to a political barrier.
I was referring to that fence down at the 49 parallel. No way no how will they let me cross there to set up shop down your way.
The brass hats in Washington actually kicked me off a military project when they discovered a Canadian engineer was working on a military contract job that gave me access to all their coast guard bases. I actually had to find a US citizen replacement and train him up to take my place. For years afterwards all my mail from any US sources was opened. I must really hve pissed somebody off. A friend in Baltimore shipped me a computer loaded with Linuz. Customs agents must have sabotaged it and burned out the BIOS chip effecttively lobotomizing it. I had to install a new mother board. At one time I had a corporate travelling job where I visited all the major cities all round the continent. Now I get cross examined like I was a criminal Paranoid bunch of . . . . <smile>July 27, 2011 at 12:00 am #65400
lol sorry yes i guess i did misunderstand. you need to learn to speak aussie
that seems to grease the wheels anywhere I want to travel lol
Thanks to paul hogan and crocadile dundee hahaha
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